[Maildev] Engineering Council or Engineering Steering Committee (ESC) - where art thou?

Onno Ekker o.e.ekker at gmail.com
Fri Aug 31 13:40:22 EDT 2018



> On 31 Aug 2018, at 10:14, Magnus Melin <mkmelin+mozilla at iki.fi> wrote:
> 
>> On 31-08-2018 09:55, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
>>> On 31/08/2018 01:30, Ben Bucksch wrote:
>>> The ESC is *not* in charge of the UI, only of technical aspects.
>> 
>> The larger technical aspect is: How much of an HTML editor do we want Thunderbird to be.
> 
> Yes there are larger technical aspects that can be discussed.
> 
> Thunderbird is an email client, and aspiring personal information manager supporting various communication protocols. It is not, and was never designed to be used as an HTML editor though it has HTML email editing capabilities.
> 
>> 
>> There appear to be tendencies to deconstruct HTML capabilities for no apparent reason, or perhaps with the argument, that you can do stupid things with it.
> 
> I think you should look at these capabilities from the other side. If you were to design it from scratch, is this feature something you would include, and are there use cases where the feature comes in handy. If you establish there's a use case, think about what the best way of achieving it is.
> 
> Now, for bug 690644, you already acknowledged yourself you think the feature is a footgun with few use good use cases, but you want to keep it for the sake of... not knowing if anybody would be upset?
> 
> I think we have a responsibility to our users to make them look as good as possible in their communication. Letting them *by default* compose mails with font-size=+3 and body bgcolor=red doesn't seem like a good idea. (They want to zoom instead.)
> 
> In general I don't think there is any point in trying to encourage users to use extensive html formatting in their mails. Chances are pretty high the recipients will see something fairly different from what the sender expected. To have something that looks good, you need to put significant time (and have the knowledge) into the composition. You can do that, but if you put in the time, what you want is to make a fancy template that you can reuse and improve over time. Doing it time and time again is just not something to recommend to anyone.
> 
> Adding one-off formatting to emphasize certain information in your mails is not what this discussion is about. That's a worth while use case. We're discussing default values that apply to all the mails you send out.
> 
>> So as I see it: During the course of the year we have achieved nothing except the creation of the Maildev mailing list, and steps of getting more people involved in the decision making, not only the discussion, are even being wound back. So much for governance changes :-(
> 
> By being part of the discussion people are part of the decision making process and can voice their opinions or alternative solutions. The idea was to present ideas to a wider audience for feedback before going all out. Now, the group of people is not easily definable... Clearly certain ideas would be hard to pull through without buy-in from key people, and that would be part of the decision on which direction to go (or not).
> 
>  -Magnus


What I miss every timr when people say that recipients don’t see formatting is that a *lot* of (company) users use Outlook and they /do/ see formatting! I’m not in favor of html mail myself, but I think that if you deny this and strip formatting options from Thunderbird, you’ll only lose more users to other clients.

Onno
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