[Maildev] Engineering Council or Engineering Steering Committee (ESC) - where art thou?

Magnus Melin mkmelin+mozilla at iki.fi
Fri Aug 31 06:38:05 EDT 2018


On 31-08-2018 12:29, Jörg Knobloch wrote:
> On 31/08/2018 10:14, Magnus Melin wrote:
>> I think we have a responsibility to our users to make them look as 
>> good as possible in their communication. Letting them *by default* 
>> compose mails with font-size=+3 and body bgcolor=red doesn't seem 
>> like a good idea. (They want to zoom instead.)
>
> No. The proposed new default value is not to send any colours. Yes, 
> the UI allows them to select an ugly background for all their e-mail, 
> but the UI also allows them to select a font for all their e-mails 
> which will in 50% of cases **not** display correctly at the recipients 
> end.
>
I'm not against hiding default font selection away even further.

> The UI also allows users to accept any remote content by default, send 
> outgoing mail encrypted in "Korean (EUC-KR)" and view stored passwords 
> in plaintext.
>
Remote content by default is ok if the user wants it. In fact the 
average user probably even wants that. (You realize Gmail does have it 
on by default, right? And there's no significant outcry about it.)

Encoding for outgoing could be forced to UTF-8 only, if we can get Japan 
on board. We should try to find out if we can do that. Converting 
encodings back and forth creates a bunch of extra work for us.

> 100% fool-proof software doesn't exist and there are far worse traps 
> than an ugly background, which, BTW, under the latest proposal would 
> come with a warning unlike other dangerous options. The fact of the 
> matter is: Blocking an improvement or compromise is just cementing-in 
> the existing undesirable state. And that's not in anyone's interest.
>
Seems like a strange argument that since we can't get 100% we should do 
nothing at all to improve the situation. I'm interested in fixing all 
footguns we have. Just file bugs and upload a patch.

> If you look at https://wiki.mozilla.org/Modules/All you can see the 
> Mozilla have heaps of modules, Firefox, Toolkit and dozens of Core 
> modules. Thunderbird appears to have four modules: TB itself, Mailnews 
> (practically unowned), Chat and Calendar, and the TB module owner can 
> *decide *the future of the product at their (in this case, his) sole 
> discretion.
>
Eh, no, just in theory. Like I said, doing certain things without enough 
key people buy-in would be a disaster.

Besides, the Thunderbird Council also have their right to influence the 
product.

> As I mentioned before: A while ago "Thunderbird NextGeneration" was 
> discussed. Due to lack of funds this didn't go ahead. But had there 
> been funds, the TB module owner should not have had the power alone to 
> decide to stick with the approach of TB as a desktop-centred 
> stand-alone binary.
>
TB next is not being discussed here. As stated that intended as 
completely separate code base. As a different code base it would have 
had it's own decision making process. In any case, that would have been 
a political decision for the Thunderbird Council to take.

  -Magnus


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